Reducing factor for construction and research times depending on the level of development and Age

Sega

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Hello BHG!

Why not introduce a reduction factor for of construction and research times, depending on the level of development and Age?

In any Age, the construction of any structure or any research takes the same time - residents are distracted for a long time. The construction time is already prohibitive - a week or more, and it doesn’t matter whether it’s the Stone Age or the Cosmic Age.

It would be logical to introduce a reduction factor for time. I will explain using a simple and understandable example from real life. For example, making a metal tool in the Stone Age seems almost impossible and, accordingly, very time-consuming, but already in the Industrial Age such tools are made on an assembly line and it takes very much less time.

The Age and level of development in themselves suggest that the player is actively playing and developing, so why not provide the opportunity to more quickly “bring up to the level” structures or technologies that are lagging behind in development? We are not talking about reducing the time for advanced, so to speak, technologies and structures - let “breakthrough” technologies remain just as difficult to access in time.

I understand your interest in players staying longer in the game, but a situation arises when all the residents are busy with research or construction, and at this time there is practically nothing to do in the game, it becomes uninteresting - progress slows down very much. This factor, on the contrary, reduces interest in the game. Quite quickly you get tired of fighting at the same level, when during the attack there are a lot of resources, and there is simply nowhere to spend them, because... all residents are occupied for a long time. Fighting just to build powerful walls is a very dubious pleasure.

It would be possible to introduce a reduction factor for time depending on the Age and Level of development of the city. There should be constant, tangible progress in the game. It is a matter of your imagination what future developments to propose for cities and civilizations.

Please think about this.

P.S. I ask the players who have been in the game for a long time, who have spent a huge amount of time in such expectations, not to be upset... But the game should develop and be more interesting.
 
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ZenDen

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In many similar games, this is precisely the mechanism of development in a game - things that from past times you can build faster. Seems like a normal, regular idea. Absolutely no one loses. The only thing I understand is that those who have already walked this long path will be disadvantaged and do not want others to walk it easier and faster. Is that what it's all about?
Here I am already observing resistance of this kind. Are these all the same episodes of the same movie?
 

Sega

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ほぼすべての年齢層がすでに最大 95% という大幅な削減を経験しています。 https://xen.bighugegames.com/index.php?threads/dominations-progression-and-resource-update.29422/

最高年齢における長い待機時間には 2 つの「利点」があります。1 つは、プレイヤーがアクセルとクラウンを消費することを奨励されることです。 一方で、非常に長い時間が必要になります。 これにより、プログラマーは新しいコンテンツを開発する時間が得られます。 これにより、全員が最大限に活用され、より多くのコンテンツを求め続けることができなくなります。


あなたは抵抗を完全に誤解しています。
I'm afraid of incurring the wrath of some people again.

But a very strange reduction in time, very strange (which is indicated in the your link). The reduction was greatest in Ages where the waiting time was already not that long, but it was further reduced. And in older Ages, where it is very significant, on the contrary, the waiting time was prohibitively long and remained approximately the same. "It's easy to make huge discounts on products that cost next to nothing anyway".

And you stubbornly do not understand the main idea. For example, I did not improve a structure, but developed and moved into the next Age. So this particular structure can already be improved in older Age in a shorter period of time. That's the main idea.

I don't want to offend you, but I've already seen that you're bad at math, so maybe this diagram will be difficult for you. Sorry, nothing personal.

The description on your link just says that they did introduce a reduction factor, but simply “head-on” reduced everyone’s waiting time for everything in all Ages. I'm talking about a completely different mechanism. Please re-read all my arguments in this topic more carefully. I don't want to repeat myself. But you really don’t understand me, and you don’t want to understand the essence.

P.S. Now I understand why the "old school" is so angry - newbies are allowed to rush through Ages in a very short period of time, which you spent a lot of time on. But this is not correct, I agree with you here. Scheme which is indicated in the your link, on the contrary, makes the situation even worse - in older Ages the waiting time is even more significantly greater than the waiting time of younger Ages.
 

Sega

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すべての人のために話すことはできません。 しかし、あなたは私のことを完全に誤解していました。 リンクされた削減は非常に歓迎だと思います。 それは、若い選手たちがステップアップできるように、そして私たちが年を重ねたときに新しい血を取り入れることができるようにするために重要でした。

軽減額は、どの時代にいるかには依存しません。 ただし、それは建物がどの時代のものかによって異なります。 したがって、工業時代にタワー レベル 9 を無視していて、現在宇宙時代にいるとしても、80% 短い時間でタワー レベル 9 への改善を完了することができます。
私はすでに、特定のレベルをスキップする、つまりこの例ではレベル 8 からレベル 13 に直接改善するというアイデアを提案しました。


石器時代の人々は原始的な道具で満足していました。 文明と生産が発展するにつれて、私たちの要求も高まります。 あるいは、石器時代にマイクロメートルの精度で製造されたコードレスドライバーやタービンを想像できますか?
I ask you to please re-read the forum thread and still try to understand. I understand that they reduced the time for all Ages, but the fact of the matter is that it remains unchanged and same - no matter what Age you are in, but, for example, improving from the 8th to the 9th level will take you the same amount of time for any Age.

Now, following your analogy, let’s imagine a stone axe. If in the Stone Age it would take about a month to make it, for example, then in our modern times they will make exactly the same stone ax for you in a few hours. Do you understand what I mean? The thing to make is the same, but the time to make it is different for different Ages. And the older the Age, the less time it will take. But! This does not mean that modern things will be made faster, no! It can also take you months to make modern items. I hope this analogy is clear to you?

So, let's develop the idea further. Let's imagine that upgrading a building from level 8 to level 9 means making an axe. Then in the Stone Age it would take a month, and in modern times - several hours. Thus, if I have a building of the 8th level, but I have reached the modern age, then the transition from the 8th level to the 9th will be much faster for me - only a few hours. But for the modern level, the building of the 8th level is too old, therefore its improvement is much faster.
 
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Sega

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I ask you to please re-read the forum thread and still try to understand. I understand that they reduced the time for all Ages, but the fact of the matter is that it remains unchanged and same - no matter what Age you are in, but, for example, improving from the 8th to the 9th level will take you the same amount of time for any Age.

Now, following your analogy, let’s imagine a stone axe. If in the Stone Age it would take about a month to make it, for example, then in our modern times they will make exactly the same stone ax for you in a few hours. Do you understand what I mean? The thing to make is the same, but the time to make it is different for different Ages. And the older the Age, the less time it will take. But! This does not mean that modern things will be made faster, no! It can also take you months to make modern items. I hope this analogy is clear to you?

So, let's develop the idea further. Let's imagine that upgrading a building from level 8 to level 9 means making an axe. Then in the Stone Age it would take a month, and in modern times - several hours. Thus, if I have a building of the 8th level, but I have reached the modern age, then the transition from the 8th level to the 9th will be much faster for me - only a few hours. But for the modern level, the building of the 8th level is too old, therefore its improvement is much faster.
Let's just put it in table form:
Age No. 1:
improving a building:
1 -> 2 = 1 min
2 -> 3 = 5 min
3 -> 4 = 1 hour
4 -> 5 = 6 hours
etc.

Age No. 2 (older):
improvement of the exact same building:
1 -> 2 = 55 sec
2 -> 3 = 4 min 30 sec
3 -> 4 = 50 min
4 -> 5 = 5 hours

But you understand that you can’t just jump from Age No. 1 to Age No. 2, for this you will have to build many other buildings and make improvements and more other things. But if you have left this building in the past (not improve them), so to speak, then improving it will take less time in Age No. 2.

But in order not to have to deal with such tables, although they are also suitable, you can simply enter a reducing factor. In general, this is what we are talking about in the entire this thread forum. But I don’t know how to explain this even more clearly.
 

nobodyknowsthetrouble

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Now, following your analogy, let’s imagine a stone axe. If in the Stone Age it would take about a month to make it, for example, then in our modern times they will make exactly the same stone ax for you in a few hours. Do you understand what I mean?
あなたの気持ちは理解できますが、私は同意しません。 現代の石斧の開発は、これまでの研究開発によってどのような素材や加工方法が適しているかを理解しているため、より早く開発されています。 しかし、石斧とは何かという概念がなければ、努力は同じです。 加工可能だが多孔質ではないなど、どの石が適しているかを確認する必要があります。 どのハンドルが適切か (安定性と弾力性) を確認し、適切なコネクタを探す必要があります。 したがって、まったく新しいアイデアの開発が、より現代的になったからといって、より速く進むわけではありません。
 

Sega

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@nobodyknowsthetrouble ,
It seems to me that what is preventing you from understanding the meaning of this topic is your personal resistance to everything that can accelerate the development of others. I have already seen this in several forum threads and your posts. You do your best to prevent some improvement in the game that will allow someone to develop faster. Even if it's just a smarter investment of resources, you're still completely against it.

But believe me, the introduction of this reduction factor will be fair for all players. And those reductions in waiting time (at this link: https://xen.bighugegames.com/index.php?threads/dominations-progression-and-resource-update.29422/) they only, on the contrary, aggravated the difference in time between younger and older ages. Yes, players of younger ages will reach older age faster, but once they reach it they will simply “stand in a stupor” and the waiting time will increase sharply. Believe me, this will not improve the situation, but on the contrary - if a person is not used to waiting from the very beginning, and then suddenly finds himself in these long waits, he may protest much more quickly and will not want to continue playing. But this is more of a psychological factor.
 
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Sega

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あなたの気持ちは理解できますが、私は同意しません。 現代の石斧の開発は、これまでの研究開発によってどのような素材や加工方法が適しているかを理解しているため、より早く開発されています。 しかし、石斧とは何かという概念がなければ、努力は同じです。 加工可能だが多孔質ではないなど、どの石が適しているかを確認する必要があります。 どのハンドルが適切か (安定性と弾力性) を確認し、適切なコネクタを探す必要があります。 したがって、まったく新しいアイデアの開発が、より現代的になったからといって、より速く進むわけではありません。
Exactly! We are talking about different things! I’m trying to explain to you for the umpteenth time that we are talking about the same stone axe, and not about a high-tech stone ax from the future! Realize this at last.

So think about one and the same ax - will it take the same amount of time (making it will take the same time) to be made in different Ages or not? Absolutely the same, exactly a stone ax!
 
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Sega

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Let's just put it in table form:
Age No. 1:
improving a building:
1 -> 2 = 1 min
2 -> 3 = 5 min
3 -> 4 = 1 hour
4 -> 5 = 6 hours
etc.

Age No. 2 (older):
improvement of the exact same building:
1 -> 2 = 55 sec
2 -> 3 = 4 min 30 sec
3 -> 4 = 50 min
4 -> 5 = 5 hours

But you understand that you can’t just jump from Age No. 1 to Age No. 2, for this you will have to build many other buildings and make improvements and more other things. But if you have left this building in the past (not improve them), so to speak, then improving it will take less time in Age No. 2.

But in order not to have to deal with such tables, although they are also suitable, you can simply enter a reducing factor. In general, this is what we are talking about in the entire this thread forum. But I don’t know how to explain this even more clearly.
I'll tell you even more. With this approach, which is actually very flexible (for all that, it is a very simple mathematical model), it is possible to realize that, for example, it will be impossible to build some buildings of a certain level until a certain Age is reached:

Age No. 1:
improving a building:
1 -> 2 = 1 min
2 -> 3 = 5 min
3 -> 4 = 1 hour
4 -> 5 = 6 hours
5 -> 6 = 10 days
6 -> 7 = 1 year (difficult)
7 -> 8 = 100 years (unattainable)
8 -> 9 = 1000 years (unattainable)
etc.

Age No. 2 (older):
improvement of the exact same building:
1 -> 2 = 55 sec
2 -> 3 = 4 min
3 -> 4 = 50 min
4 -> 5 = 5 hours
5 -> 6 = 1 day
6 -> 7 = 10 days
7 -> 8 = 1 year (difficult)
8 -> 9 = 100 years (unattainable)

Age No. 3 (even older):
improvement of the exact same building:
1 -> 2 = 30 sec
2 -> 3 = 1 min
3 -> 4 = 10 min
4 -> 5 = 1 hour
5 -> 6 = 10 hours
6 -> 7 = 1 day
7 -> 8 = 15 days
8 -> 9 = 1 year (difficult)

All times are very approximate, just as an example.
 

nobodyknowsthetrouble

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It seems to me that what is preventing you from understanding the meaning of this topic is your personal resistance to everything that can accelerate the development of others. I have already seen this in several forum threads and your posts. You do your best to prevent some improvement in the game that will allow someone to develop faster.
あなたは故意に私の口に偽りの言葉を入れました。
時間短縮は大歓迎だと言いました。 しかし、開発の迅速化に向けた大きな一歩はすでに数か月前に行われており、私の意見では、これ以上のステップは必要ありません。 まだまだアップグレードしなければならないことがたくさんあります。 しかし、私の目標は数週間で終わらせることではありません。 これは長期戦であり、数か月で終わるものではありません。 したがって、私は開発が長期にわたるという事実を受け入れています。

あなたのモデルは理解するのがそれほど難しくありません。 しかし、それはただのひどいことです。 あなたは、何でもすぐに欲しがる小さな子供のようなものです。

このゲームには、レベルがどのように発展するかについての機能的なシステムがあります。 これは根本的に変える必要はありません。
待ち時間もゲームの一部です。 それとともに生きることを学びましょう。 お金や無料のクラウンやスピードアップで進歩を加速するオプションが常にあります。
 

Sega

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あなたは故意に私の口に偽りの言葉を入れました。
時間短縮は大歓迎だと言いました。 しかし、開発の迅速化に向けた大きな一歩はすでに数か月前に行われており、私の意見では、これ以上のステップは必要ありません。 まだまだアップグレードしなければならないことがたくさんあります。 しかし、私の目標は数週間で終わらせることではありません。 これは長期戦であり、数か月で終わるものではありません。 したがって、私は開発が長期にわたるという事実を受け入れています。

あなたのモデルは理解するのがそれほど難しくありません。 しかし、それはただのひどいことです。 あなたは、何でもすぐに欲しがる小さな子供のようなものです。

このゲームには、レベルがどのように発展するかについての機能的なシステムがあります。 これは根本的に変える必要はありません。
待ち時間もゲームの一部です。 それとともに生きることを学びましょう。 お金や無料のクラウンやスピードアップで進歩を加速するオプションが常にあります。
Not at all! I am not focused either on very rapid development, or, especially, on freebies. But a more flexible system is not so much about speeding up as it is more logical and more like real life.

I don’t expect any quick implementation of this idea into the game, but if it is taken into account by the BHG and the development team, this is already a huge step forward.

I’m far from a child anymore. You yourself are a little like a child who is afraid that the fairy tale (game) will end quickly. And I certainly don’t intentionally put anything into your mouth, I just asked you to understand my idea. I see your attitude on the forum towards any ideas that allow players to develop a little more deftly. I'm not judging, no. But you are very “petrified” in your views. You need to be more flexible in considering other points of view.

Perhaps you need to live with what you have, and perhaps you need to change at least something for the better sometimes.

Believe me, this model is not at all aimed at providing any significant acceleration, no. But it makes it possible for a more uniform development, for example, of all buildings, when it is possible to “catch up, pull up” those buildings that have stagnated in their previous levels of development.

Still, you have not fully understood the basic concept of the idea and still continue to resist the possibility of faster and more uniform development. There are a lot of things in the game that have to spend time on. You continue to stubbornly insist that players cannot be allowed to quickly develop in the game. But you are even against more rational investment of resources. Should everyone develop only the way you can?

Of course, you think this model is not difficult to understand, after I have completely “chewed” it for you. Go back a few posts and re-read your own judgments. To be honest, I'm a little tired of conveying the meaning of this idea to you. But this is a blessing! I hope that all this will be more clear to others after all these clarifications.

P.S. By the way, yes, you very often mention both accelerations and crowns. It feels like they just “fall out of the sky” to you. Is this possible? I don’t have such great capabilities to talk about this so freely.
 
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nobodyknowsthetrouble

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this model is not at all aimed at providing any significant acceleration
何も変わらないなら、なぜこんなことをするんだろう

But you are even against more rational investment of resources. Should everyone develop only the way you can?
あなたはただ理解していないだけです。 私のアカウントも制限なくより速く開発できる可能性があります。 それにもかかわらず、私は制限を撤廃することに反対です。 これらには意味があります。 このゲームは短距離走ではなくマラソンです。
かつて、資源は希少品であり、すべてを十分に手に入れるには少しの努力が必要でした。 博物館 (略奪された資源、略奪された資源の再発見) と最近狩猟に加えられた変化のおかげで、資源は無限の商品です。 すべてを使い切る方法があるとは期待できません。 一回の攻撃で何百万ものリソースを手に入れることができるからです。 最大 3 回の攻撃が成功すると、すべての倉庫が再び満杯になります。 したがって、すべてを費やすことができると期待するのは完全に狂っています。 しかし、最良の投資は博物館です。
 

Sega

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I'll tell you even more. With this approach, which is actually very flexible (for all that, it is a very simple mathematical model), it is possible to realize that, for example, it will be impossible to build some buildings of a certain level until a certain Age is reached:

Age No. 1:
improving a building:
1 -> 2 = 1 min
2 -> 3 = 5 min
3 -> 4 = 1 hour
4 -> 5 = 6 hours
5 -> 6 = 10 days
6 -> 7 = 1 year (difficult)
7 -> 8 = 100 years (unattainable)
8 -> 9 = 1000 years (unattainable)
etc.

Age No. 2 (older):
improvement of the exact same building:
1 -> 2 = 55 sec
2 -> 3 = 4 min
3 -> 4 = 50 min
4 -> 5 = 5 hours
5 -> 6 = 1 day
6 -> 7 = 10 days
7 -> 8 = 1 year (difficult)
8 -> 9 = 100 years (unattainable)

Age No. 3 (even older):
improvement of the exact same building:
1 -> 2 = 30 sec
2 -> 3 = 1 min
3 -> 4 = 10 min
4 -> 5 = 1 hour
5 -> 6 = 10 hours
6 -> 7 = 1 day
7 -> 8 = 15 days
8 -> 9 = 1 year (difficult)

All times are very approximate, just as an example.
Important

The transition to next Age is taken as a factor to reducing time for improvement only as an example, to make it clearer. It would be more logical that for each type of building, for example, the determining factor would be the building of this type with the highest level of all buildings of this type. That is, the most improved one “pulls up” all the others with it, reducing the time for their improvement. And even better, absolutely ideally, so that both Age (or better, overall level of development) and the most improved building of a given type are determining. I hope this is more clear after all the previous explanations.

P.S. But this would clearly be more difficult to explain without the previous more visual explanations.
 
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Sega

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何も変わらないなら、なぜこんなことをするんだろう


あなたはただ理解していないだけです。 私のアカウントも制限なくより速く開発できる可能性があります。 それにもかかわらず、私は制限を撤廃することに反対です。 これらには意味があります。 このゲームは短距離走ではなくマラソンです。
かつて、資源は希少品であり、すべてを十分に手に入れるには少しの努力が必要でした。 博物館 (略奪された資源、略奪された資源の再発見) と最近狩猟に加えられた変化のおかげで、資源は無限の商品です。 すべてを使い切る方法があるとは期待できません。 一回の攻撃で何百万ものリソースを手に入れることができるからです。 最大 3 回の攻撃が成功すると、すべての倉庫が再び満杯になります。 したがって、すべてを費やすことができると期待するのは完全に狂っています。 しかし、最良の投資は博物館です。
Did I say it doesn't change anything? Don’t you see what’s changing? That's why I propose this idea. It changes life for the better.

How difficult you are. You present everything only through your own prism of views. If others ask for something, then probably someone needs it, have you ever thought about it? Let others manage their resources more freely, and manage your own as you wish. Here is one thing you have “I”, “I”, "I"... think about it in general, and not just in relation to yourself. Please!

P.S. Explain to me how I can invest food and gold into the Museum?

P.S. Sometimes I get the impression that you are not even a fan of the marathon, but of endless running in a closed circle of the stadium - what is this type of running called?
 
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King Crimson

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@Sega , I can see what you're saying and I can also agree with @nobodyknowsthetrouble - yes the game is a marathon and who knows, maybe some people like the effort that they have to put into it. Everyone is different.
Your idea has merit because things should improve as our technology improves with each age and the idea would be beneficial if there weren't any speedups in the game or if there weren't any other sources of time reduction eg: University.
But since these other do sources exist your idea, which is a good idea, is not too important in the grand scheme - more of a 'nice-to-have' idea.
 

Sega

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@Sega , I can see what you're saying and I can also agree with @nobodyknowsthetrouble - yes the game is a marathon and who knows, maybe some people like the effort that they have to put into it. Everyone is different.
Your idea has merit because things should improve as our technology improves with each age and the idea would be beneficial if there weren't any speedups in the game or if there weren't any other sources of time reduction eg: University.
But since these other do sources exist your idea, which is a good idea, is not too important in the grand scheme - more of a 'nice-to-have' idea.
Even with such a scheme, all the accelerations that are used now will be necessary. Yes, I agree, this idea is more “nice-to-have” than “must-have”. But if it is implemented, then no one will lose, not even marathon runners.
 

Sega

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More than anything, I want BHG and the development team to pay attention to this idea. How and when this will be implemented in the game is up to them to decide. Moreover, the idea is not quite difficult to implement. In general, I myself am an opponent of complex schemes and overly complex algorithms.

And I’m also pleased that the players again paid attention to this idea and were more attentive to it. And I, I think, managed to explain everything more clearly. Believe me, I'm not looking for a freebie, and I don't want to significantly speed up your marathons. Even with this idea, you will go through a long and interesting path in the game.
 

nobodyknowsthetrouble

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More than anything, I want BHG and the development team
これを実装しないこと。ここで私が読んだ唯一のことは、高年齢層の発達は低年齢層よりもわずかに速いということです。 これにより、古いアカウントの方が若いアカウントよりも早く進行することが保証されます。 これは古いアカウントと若いプレイヤーの間のギャップを拡大する傾向があるため、逆効果です。
P.S. Explain to me how I can invest food and gold into the Museum?
目を開ければ道が見つかるでしょう。 マルチプレイヤーと戦争博物館の両方を備えています。
 

Sega

Active member
Joined
Dec 5, 2023
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226
これを実装しないこと。ここで私が読んだ唯一のことは、高年齢層の発達は低年齢層よりもわずかに速いということです。 これにより、古いアカウントの方が若いアカウントよりも早く進行することが保証されます。 これは古いアカウントと若いプレイヤーの間のギャップを拡大する傾向があるため、逆効果です。
Yes, you're really bad at math. Let them figure out for themselves what to implement and what not. And what kind of manner is this - telling others what to do? I proposed a good idea for consideration, I think so.

P.S. You like to argue about things that you yourself don’t understand. At first I “chewed” all this to you over several posts. You understood the idea, but the essence still didn’t reach you.
 
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