Barracks Update thoughts. (Response to complainers)

[Armitage]

I keep seeing people complain about barracks troops, wanting choppers un-nerfed, and other such nonsense.

I say phooey! Barracks troops are not useless and there is so much more to them than a one trick pony.

My go-to mix is 10 APCs/8 Mortars. The APCs are responsible for base clearing, while the mortars drop the hammer on defenders. Works pretty well, ends up being a steady wave of destruction. Have to keep a close eye on the APCs, targeting on HI lets defenders filter through to the APCs. HTs in particular will ruin that offense real quick, every shot is a kill on those.

I've also experimented with 9 Cav Tanks/18 Ranged infantry/13 RPGs. The Cav Tanks do a nice job of clearing the way, just have to knock out cannons in front of them. Not too set on the RI, they don't maintain formation with the other two too well.

Siege/Mortar/Ranged Infantry is an interesting mix, would love to see it done with British. The effect is similar, but slower, to an APC/Mortar mix. The difference is that now the offense just threw on a pair of parachute pants, because they can't be touched.

Since I'm geared for Heavy Infantry, I've also had moderate success using Tactical Helicopters. If you can fly one into a Town Center, usually by carpet bombing a route, they'll lay waste to it.

The point is, this update changed so much and opened up whole new avenues of strategy, but everyone is so fixated on the damned Attack Helicopters. I like the Heavy Infantry, and now I get to stand with the rest of my Alliance in Wars without feeling like I'm letting them down. The best part is because I spent so long trying to make them work before the update, the strategies I developed for them now let me hit above my weight class.

This update lets us find what we like and not be left behind, not forcing us to be like everyone else, and for that, the developer has my thanks.

Oh, and the choppers, they're not bad right now, but their targeting needs work. The shortened range makes them dance around a target too much to get in firing position. I've seen them go back and forth before firing for no reason, it's weird.

 

[King Crimson]

The HP & DPS of helis are about right imo - the only things that needs a change is the range. The helis are outgunned by canon towers ffs!

Come on devs - just a simple change in a digit - 5 > 6 - you can do it .....

 

[oddin]

we want videos mate. See how you make it work

 

[Armitage]

I don't have any videos, but I'll look into what it'll take me to snag some. At the very least, I'll start posting some strategies for barracks troops over in the appropriate forum section.

Here's a screenshot of my best WW hit so far to show proof that I'm not full of hot air. Had to pull some of my best TTs for this hit, but it went off without a hitch in 1m44s. On the flipside, I've had L200 Atomics stymie me for a 5*.

If you like something, it CAN work. I went through Gunners/RPGs/Choppers/Ranged, all to find the best support for my chosen troop. That Cav Tank mix I gave? Hours of playing around to find a decent balance of support and destruction, but it works.

This offense ABSOLUTELY has to keep on top of the defenders. If they're allowed to get a foothold, the APCs might as well be a watermelon at a Gallagher show and the offense fails. Opening move is always a Silo strike. The museum is geared for HI, with minor Para/Mortar support and a healthy reduction to defensive tower damage, which mostly helps out against sniper towers and keeping my air alive. The APC deployment upgrades are a must, need boots on the ground at all times.

10 APCs
8 Mortars
2 Heavy Infantry
L17 Bjorn
L19 Joan
3 Tank Destroyers
2 Fighters
2 Transports
2 Sabotage
5 Betrayal
1 Blitzkrieg
1 Strength of the Gladiator

2 MK13 HTs
2 RPGs
1 Riflemen

L7 Aztec
L7 Cherokee
L6 Americans

1 Red Baron
1 Recon
1 Green Beret Infantry
1 T90 Tank

 

[redprince]

Your strategy mainly depends on a factory unit (APC), so I'm not sure the barracks angle makes sense. I do like APCs though, but I typically like to use them as cleanup around a HT strategy...3-4 HTs and APCs with Zooks backing them for cleanup around the edges that take HTs forever to get to.

 

[Armitage]

I hear you on the APC troop technically being a factory troop. It's a little bit funky and toes the line, but the work is all being done by the Heavy Infantry being deployed by them, with a secondary support troop from the barracks itself. The APCs are just a delivery service and if the HI wasn't up to par, this would have no chance in heck of working.

Ever since the chopper nerf, which I am actually thankful for, there is no end-all be-all troop in the barracks. They all require integrated strategies. This is what we want, actual strategy! Options to cook up something that is weird and funky and works!

I'm still working through some troop upgrades, so I haven't unlocked them yet, but I'm looking forward to trying out Assault Vehicles. I REALLY want to see what an AV can do these days when mixed with a Tactical Helicopter.

Also, they need to get some support in for the AVs. Can't believe there is nothing for upgrades or even museum pieces for them.

 

[oddin]

you definitely need to record a couple of your attacks. I am interested to see how it works for you.
I have an offensive account with maxed APCs but never tried them. Who knows? maybe they have some use

 

[Armitage]

I keep seeing people wanting videos, I don't have any video upload site accounts and I'm kind of "eh" on starting one. This game, and recently this forum, is my big socializing on the internet right here.

Just try them. It costs nothing but a little time to try a different troop combo. I've even given a head start over in the Tactics & Strategies section with troop combos I've played around with.

I can tell you right now that those combos were used at Atomic or an age lower against Cold War bases in the 200-240 range in Multiplayer for 5* hits.

All these troops can be used, and if you want a result like the one I've shown above, taken to their limits and beyond. Have any of you done some quick math on the post-update Siege Cannon? How little effort it would take to make them able to one-shot all but half a dozen buildings? How a little more effort would make that possible an age higher...even 2 or more ages higher? Find a way to protect them, which isn't hard these days, and all of a sudden, you've got the most broken damage dealer. HTs and Zooks might have a better DPS, but it's just wasted damage past the building hitpoints. And they certainly don't throw that from a 7 range.

And for added fun, pair that damage with a hefty minus to Defensive Tower damage from the museum...then add in the reduction they get on top of that...all you need to worry about is keeping defenders off of them and a sweep is all but guaranteed

 

[Theoneandonly]

so ... reading the comments on barrack troops in this forum I see no one crying about the rebalance. People just saying it was completely op first reg AH and that the AH nerf was one or two steps to much as the extraordinary talented people at BHG taken every single feedback on nerfs and realized it. That's all.

Coming to your statements, lets mention first that you are cold ware age, attacking space age bases. That's a big difference to players at info age. In addition you haven't shown yet how you are performing on 3D bases with a decent museum.

I am playing four accounts: two info age, one space and one Cold War. Saying this I take advantage of some experience reg the performance of barrack troops. Forget about using them on higher age latest at digital age - assuming that you are hitting a 3D base with a decent museum. One exception: AH.

AH are still the best barrack troop cause they fly over walls, have a extreme high damage against D buildings. Without museum buff they aren't able to smash D bases of the same age. But with boosts like 100 plus on damage and 50 plus on hp combined with a high EDST and the right TT they can five star even monster bases. It only needs precise execution and skill.

 

[Theoneandonly]

we want videos mate. See how you make it work

It works mate, but only with decent museum buffs versus 3D bases.

 

[Armitage]

Coming to your statements, lets mention first that you are cold ware age, attacking space age bases. That's a big difference to players at info age. In addition you haven't shown yet how you are performing on 3D bases with a decent museum.

3D bases vary for me, but generally an L8 3D is...tricky. Defenders are the answer to my offense, and my way of dealing with them is either my two fighters/8 mortars, or anti-unit TTs. If I have to spend TTs, usually in the form of sacrificial planes, to take down the Silo or some other target of interest, that cuts into my ability to deal with them. I have to rely on the former to handle it, and a Maori or Filipino makes that just a tad hard.

Have I taken 3D Space Ages in war? Yes. Is it a regular occurance? No.

If the AA is spread responsibly and the base is well designed, defenses appropriately upgraded and no obvious flaws for me to take advantage of with my toolbox, then it's probably not gonna happen. If any of the former is false, then I have a chance, just like anyone else. And that's the point I'm trying to make; These troops are no longer lesser, just different now.

To further answer, I just had a war match against a L283 3D(Maori, Russians, and Egyptians) Digital. Museum had +99% Defensive Tower damage, +36% Air Defense damage, +39% Defensive Tower Hitpoints, a loaded SH, and a full set of Spartan Sprinkles coming out of the Merc camp. Some others, but those were the highlights.

End result was 1 star - 58% destruction. Still got 5 hours left in that war and that base hasn't been 5 starred yet, taken 3 IA hits so far, hat's off to them for that.

 

[SomeRandomPlayer]

That's the main issue here is that people tend to focus on the most effective / fastest method versus having fun trying/using different but less ideal methods.

While this is interesting, I'd argue it'd work better without this mix; this relies upon 2 Transport for troops, and a bunch of Betrayal to get troops too... and TT such as recon... in the end this is indicating that the troop mix needs major enhancement (supplementation). I assume the mortar infantry don't do much, realistically, but would love to see otherwise. I applaud your courage.

In the end I suspect you could 5* these bases using 10-12 commandos and zero TT instead of 4TT; and probably faster too. But if we forget about what's ideal/fastest/strongest then great, it's nice to hear other combinations can work too. In the end we're suppose to have fun, but it's difficult to resist the meta even if it's not changed in 3+ years.

 

[Armitage]

You'd be surprised on the Mortar Infantry. They vaporize Garrison defenders and when 2 or more start to collect on a target, the damage tallies pretty quick. I don't give any thought to any forts with Generals under 30, they'll get tied up in the HI and 2-3 mortars will take care of them PDQ. The main issue with them is just like the other ranged troops, keeping them on target, which is a matter of practice and a bit of luck. They like to get tied up on things in Bastions and go squirreling off every now and then. Generally, they stay on target for the first half and get spotty as time goes on. If you're expecting a lot of defender action in the second half, plan for other coverage and consider any damage they can throw a bonus.

I'd let them take care of the HTs as well, but an HT will insta-kill an HI, which doesn't trigger the pack defense response. They end up getting picked up by the APCs, which also get insta-killed. So letting them whittle my offense while the mortar teams deal with them just isn't feasible.

As for the Transports and Betrayals, that's just how I've come to deal with bases. I like the idea of replenishing troops, and even more the whole "DEATH FROM ABOVE!!WOOT!!" Aspect because I'm a cheesy dork. The synergy I get between Heavy Infantry and Transports is a nice bonus and Paras count as ground pounders, so no debuff from Filipinos.

However, I suspect a better fit would be Bombers/Plane mix. Bombers just have that snappy response and more fighters would be better for dealing with troops. My Bombers are woefully behind, hence why I haven't really tried them.

The Betrayals are my trade off for not caring(mostly, Redoubts and mortars not withstanding in their ability to reach the APC) about building defenses. I don't need those troops to finish a base, I just need them to not be against me. If it's coming down to them, something has gone horribly wrong in my attack.

And the TTs? Dude, I'm swinging at War bases an age or two up and dozens of levels on me...damn Skippy I'm pulling out the stops. I don't always go that far outta my weight class, but if I'm doing it, gotta put my best out there to make both the stars and time. I just zipped an equal leveled(to me) CWA for War in under a minute thirty with no TTs, so not always needed.

I wouldn't have even tried that 3D DA if the war wasn't coming down to the wire. Challenge is fun, but War's a team game.

Also, they took another couple of hits, never fell. So again, my hat is off to a most excellent defense.

 

[Theoneandonly]

3D bases vary for me, but generally an L8 3D is...tricky. Defenders are the answer to my offense, and my way of dealing with them is either my two fighters/8 mortars, or anti-unit TTs. If I have to spend TTs, usually in the form of sacrificial planes, to take down the Silo or some other target of interest, that cuts into my ability to deal with them. I have to rely on the former to handle it, and a Maori or Filipino makes that just a tad hard.

Have I taken 3D Space Ages in war? Yes. Is it a regular occurance? No.

If the AA is spread responsibly and the base is well designed, defenses appropriately upgraded and no obvious flaws for me to take advantage of with my toolbox, then it's probably not gonna happen. If any of the former is false, then I have a chance, just like anyone else. And that's the point I'm trying to make; These troops are no longer lesser, just different now.

To further answer, I just had a war match against a L283 3D(Maori, Russians, and Egyptians) Digital. Museum had +99% Defensive Tower damage, +36% Air Defense damage, +39% Defensive Tower Hitpoints, a loaded SH, and a full set of Spartan Sprinkles coming out of the Merc camp. Some others, but those were the highlights.

End result was 1 star - 58% destruction. Still got 5 hours left in that war and that base hasn't been 5 starred yet, taken 3 IA hits so far, hat's off to them for that.

Sorry mate, not five starring this base by Info Age hitters only means that you don’t have decent strikers in your team. Especially with only 39 ADTHP its pretty easy to smash D bases. 90 seconds are possible.

 

[Armitage]

Sorry mate, not five starring this base by Info Age hitters only means that you don’t have decent strikers in your team. Especially with only 39 ADTHP its pretty easy to smash D bases. 90 seconds are possible.

Between the Egyptian/Russian coalitions, museum, uni research, library and alliance perks, I figure their main relevant stats were roughly:

+150% All Defensive Tower Hitpoints
+200% All Defensive Tower Damage
+104% additional Air Defense Damage
+68% additional Air Defense HP
+68% minimum Defender DPS/HP (know there's more than just Maori boost, just didn't check)

Most of their defensive tower DPS/Hp researches were done, notable exception was Anti-tank cannon. Throw in some Filipinos to neuter the airfield, and I was very impressed. Those numbers throw a DA Tower somewhere in the neighborhood of 3kDPS/40kHP. U.N. and Unisphere Wonders, Garrison/Depots were a little lacking.

I was just giving what I felt were some just props to a dedicated Defensive Player.

 

[Uhuru]

I hear you on the APC troop technically being a factory troop. It's a little bit funky and toes the line, but the work is all being done by the Heavy Infantry being deployed by them, with a secondary support troop from the barracks itself. The APCs are just a delivery service and if the HI wasn't up to par, this would have no chance in heck of working.

This is an erroneous judgment. Barracks heavy infantry level (as well as any buff and improvements for HI) has nothing to do with the attacking APC HI troops.

 

[Armitage]

This is an erroneous judgment. Barracks heavy infantry level (as well as any buff and improvements for HI) has nothing to do with the attacking APC HI troops.

While you are correct in that the barracks Heavy Infantry level does not correlate to APC deployed Heavy Infantry, you are wrong in that Heavy Infantry improvements do not extend to those troops. Anyone can confirm this by simply slotting an artifact with as little as 1% boost to either damage or health for Heavy Infantry and noting the difference.

APC deployed Heavy Infantry are not a separate unit from regular HI, they  are regular HI.

APC deployed Heavy Infantry share nearly all benefits given to Barracks Heavy Infantry, notable exception appears to be the Heavy Infantry Damage research from Catherine the Great. I don't know if that's a bug or a balancing decision. I suspect the latter, given the APC deployed troop damage research at Empress Wu's, which would bring those deployed troops back to normal levels. It, like all the other APC research, takes forever and ties up a lot Citizens to complete.

In addition, if you are a Nation with a Unique Heavy Infantry, that troop will be deployed from the APC, giving those nations a combined Barracks/Factory troop. The Factory side of the equation isn't worth a powder keg blow to hell in a fight, but makes an excellent delivery service for a vicious little pack of piranhas.  If you can keep it alive, that is.

 

[Uhuru]

Yes I made sure that blessings of the barracks troops affect the APC infantry. How do other buffs for barracks troops (as coalitions, museum artifacts, etc.) affect APC infantry?

 

[Armitage]

Yes I made sure that blessings of the barracks troops affect the APC infantry. How do other buffs for barracks troops (as coalitions, museum artifacts, etc.) affect APC infantry?

Uh, it does say in my post that anyone can confirm by slotting an artifact that affects Heavy Infantry and noting the change in numbers over at the Factory.

To further clarify...and re-clarify:

APC deployed Heavy Infantry are the same as Barracks generated Heavy Infantry. Everything except the Heavy Infantry Damage research at Catherine the Great, probably as balancing decision, transfer over from Barracks HI to APC HI. That means library, university, museum, coalitions, perks, laws and any other source that affects Heavy Infantry.

 

[Theoneandonly]

Between the Egyptian/Russian coalitions, museum, uni research, library and alliance perks, I figure their main relevant stats were roughly:

+150% All Defensive Tower Hitpoints
+200% All Defensive Tower Damage
+104% additional Air Defense Damage
+68% additional Air Defense HP
+68% minimum Defender DPS/HP (know there's more than just Maori boost, just didn't check)

Most of their defensive tower DPS/Hp researches were done, notable exception was Anti-tank cannon. Throw in some Filipinos to neuter the airfield, and I was very impressed. Those numbers throw a DA Tower somewhere in the neighborhood of 3kDPS/40kHP. U.N. and Unisphere Wonders, Garrison/Depots were a little lacking.

I was just giving what I felt were some just props to a dedicated Defensive Player.

That math works for every decent D base, but it’s easy to go for DA bases as Info age striker with decent museum. And most factory combos will work. I five starred a maxed Info Age base with such stats using Paras and attack helicopters, you only need a good museum and exact execution.