Urgent Action Needed!!!

[Super Val]

the game is becoming absolutely not playable for defenders, the game is 10000% in favor of attackers now, defenders stand no chance.

1- against bombers: we have spoken a lot about this , no base whatsoever can defend against bombers.

2- Lego now are becoming insanely unstoppable:

- firing rate for artys is insane and BHG are well aware of it.
- edst now make no sense at all, as it is reaching +350 to +400% , which is crazy. (My dst is -250%, and i can barely spawn 1 wave of defenders at best)
- missile silo which is supposed to help defending is useless now, and it cost 3 demos to take it out of the equation, with defenders just watching it blown away where there is nothing to do to prevent this.

3- showcase is massively favoring the attackers , as most artifacts , like 65% of them are O artifacts, with all types of lines buffing mortars, paras, bombers…etc. you name it.

4- defensive lines are capped at -85% , so for instance your defending lines against mortars (invading mortar damage/hitpoints) stop at -85% (in all cases it is hard to reach it, as there are no such lines in legendary artifacts), while in return your ”mortar damage” can easily reach +200%, specially with the introduction of mythical kettle. Same thing applies for bombers hit points and damage.

5- moreover, edst which is supposed to buff enemy spawning time, and therefore supposed to be capped also at -85%, is simply NOT. And no matter what CS say that it is capped, it is NOT . And as i mentioned earlier, Spawning buildings can barely spawn 1 wave of defenders at best, knowing that my dst is -250%.

something need to be done here, This unbalance is killing the game!!!!

@Harlems369th

 

[Hanni]

Könnte als Angebot das Gegenteil behaupten. Das neue Zeitalter bringt Offern kaum. Die Truppenverbesserungen helfen beiden Seiten. Die der Gebäude nur Deffern.
Also, man muss das Beste für sich daraus machen.

 

[Harlems369th]

the game is becoming absolutely not playable for defenders, the game is 10000% in favor of attackers now, defenders stand no chance.

1- against bombers: we have spoken a lot about this , no base whatsoever can defend against bombers.

2- Lego now are becoming insanely unstoppable:

- firing rate for artys is insane and BHG are well aware of it.
- edst now make no sense at all, as it is reaching +350 to +400% , which is crazy. (My dst is -250%, and i can barely spawn 1 wave of defenders at best)
- missile silo which is supposed to help defending is useless now, and it cost 3 demos to take it out of the equation, with defenders just watching it blown away where there is nothing to do to prevent this.

3- showcase is massively favoring the attackers , as most artifacts , like 65% of them are O artifacts, with all types of lines buffing mortars, paras, bombers…etc. you name it.

4- defensive lines are capped at -85% , so for instance your defending lines against mortars (invading mortar damage/hitpoints) stop at -85% (in all cases it is hard to reach it, as there are no such lines in legendary artifacts), while in return your ”mortar damage” can easily reach +200%, specially with the introduction of mythical kettle. Same thing applies for bombers hit points and damage.

5- moreover, edst which is supposed to buff enemy spawning time, and therefore supposed to be capped also at -85%, is simply NOT. And no matter what CS say that it is capped, it is NOT . And as i mentioned earlier, Spawning buildings can barely spawn 1 wave of defenders at best, knowing that my dst is -250%.

something need to be done here, This unbalance is killing the game!!!!

@Harlems369th

I agree that we need to revisit the -85% debuff cap. With the release of showcases, I think that it is necessary for us to do so in the future.

Keep in mind, though, that it's only a debuff cap, not a buff cap. So for your #5 do you mean to say that you see EDST go beyond the -85% debuff cap (bug)? Or do you mean that DST goes beyond -85% (Intentional)?

 

[Kenn1h]

After paratropers got the manufacture, they have also become crazy strong. My maxed automatic age gets 5 starred in 2 min by only 3 transports dropping paratropers everywhere, without a single land troop used. Possible solution if you want to keep them that strong is that defenders also spawn troops for paratropers, or else the defensive towers can't handle them.

 

[Rollin]

I agree that we need to revisit the -85% debuff cap. With the release of showcases, I think that it is necessary for us to do so in the future.

Keep in mind, though, that it's only a debuff cap, not a buff cap. So for your #5 do you mean to say that you see EDST go beyond the -85% debuff cap (bug)? Or do you mean that DST goes beyond -85% (Intentional)?

@Harlems369th I can say it again and again Removing the cap from -85% to everything is really not a good idea; it clearly makes the offense significantly stronger than the defense would benefit from it.

I tell u why, Showcase: an example ? U can have -87% Adtd without a museum, with the museum like idk ? 4x Artefacts that have 2x 10% Adtd is like 80% Adtd minimum. The Offensive becomes -166% Adtd and alot more. The defenses are losing again ? U could reduce damage from mortars and bombers by 15-30% ? As a defensive player, you dont have much against Units

The only thing preventing the offense from being godlike is the -85% cap

He says, the Offensive should not go more (like now 350-450% EDST is far too high) he wants a cap of –85% EDST. I would find a cap good, but not -85%, that's way too low

Also: the problem is the manufactory. The defense is delayed by several months or even years. The offensive side "only" needs 2-4 Munition (Bombers = 2, or Mortars and Artillery = 4) level 20 munition, while the defensive side needs 10 buildings = 20 munition + 8 troops = 16 munitions for full Defens. And its incredibly expensive. Its not bad, but it leads to additional imbalance.

You could have just reduced or adjusted the Munition requirements for defensive buildings.

 

[Harlems369th]

@Harlems369th I can say it again and again Removing the cap from -85% to everything is really not a good idea; it clearly makes the offense significantly stronger than the defense would benefit from it.

I tell u why, Showcase: an example ? U can have -87% Adtd without a museum, with the museum like idk ? 4x Artefacts that have 2x 10% Adtd is like 80% Adtd minimum. The Offensive becomes -166% Adtd and alot more. The defenses are losing again ? U could reduce damage from mortars and bombers by 15-30% ? As a defensive player, you dont have much against Units

The only thing preventing the offense from being godlike is the -85% cap

He says, the Offensive should not go more (like now 350-450% EDST is far too high) he wants a cap of –85% EDST. I would find a cap good, but not -85%, that's way too low

Also: the problem is the manufactory. The defense is delayed by several months or even years. The offensive side "only" needs 2-4 Munition (Bombers = 2, or Mortars and Artillery = 4) level 20 munition, while the defensive side needs 10 buildings = 20 munition + 8 troops = 16 munitions for full Defens. And its incredibly expensive. Its not bad, but it leads to additional imbalance.

You could have just reduced or adjusted the Munition requirements for defensive buildings.

First, NOBODY said to remove anything, revisit, and rework.

Second, please review Sitrep #1, as that was the base that we had, and with changes in the game following the inception of the idea, we need to revisit this entirely. We've only expressed time and again that the way the math currently works, debuffs are at a disadvantage when compared to uncapped buffs.

We have a good understanding of how these things clash, and we only stepped back at the time because the community felt that, despite making a substantial benefit with this solution, we could better serve our attention elsewhere.

 

[KrispyCrame]

First, NOBODY said to remove anything, revisit, and rework.

Second, please review Sitrep #1, as that was the base that we had, and with changes in the game following the inception of the idea, we need to revisit this entirely. We've only expressed time and again that the way the math currently works, debuffs are at a disadvantage when compared to uncapped buffs.

We have a good understanding of how these things clash, and we only stepped back at the time because the community felt that, despite making a substantial benefit with this solution, we could better serve our attention elsewhere.

i think rollin's point which may have gotten buried in his wall of text and attitude, is that ultimately removing the cap, such as fadi suggested, may have unintentional consequences.

defenders have limited sources of adtd, adthp and dst. attackers have more options when considering the sources of edst and aedtd in showcases (limited aedthp beyond welrod).

while i understand that showcases and having 3+ lines of a single buff/debuff on pieces are a significant change, there are also significant costs to changing the -85% rules which have the massive potential to make this game even more unbalanced than it currently is (especially at the top levels where bombers and para/mortar/rs are unstoppable).

 

[Harlems369th]

i think rollin's point which may have gotten buried in his wall of text and attitude, is that ultimately removing the cap, such as fadi suggested, may have unintentional consequences.

defenders have limited sources of adtd, adthp and dst. attackers have more options when considering the sources of edst and aedtd in showcases (limited aedthp beyond welrod).

while i understand that showcases and having 3+ lines of a single buff/debuff on pieces are a significant change, there are also significant costs to changing the -85% rules which have the massive potential to make this game even more unbalanced than it currently is (especially at the top levels where bombers and para/mortar/rs are unstoppable).

Which is again why the original proposal for what we had regarding -85% debuff cap from sitrep #1 will need to be re-evaluated. A lot has changed in the last 3 years, so implementing it the same way doesn't quite make sense anymore.

Thank you for your concerns, but also, no one has suggested an outright removal here.

 

[Rollin]

First, NOBODY said to remove anything, revisit, and rework.

Second, please review Sitrep #1, as that was the base that we had, and with changes in the game following the inception of the idea, we need to revisit this entirely. We've only expressed time and again that the way the math currently works, debuffs are at a disadvantage when compared to uncapped buffs.

We have a good understanding of how these things clash, and we only stepped back at the time because the community felt that, despite making a substantial benefit with this solution, we could better serve our attention elsewhere.

@Harlems369th Good, I’m glad to hear that its not a removing

Yes but, the debuff on the offense against the defense is much higher than the defensive debuff the offense. Thats what I wanted to say

The defense has less options. I mean, didnt you see it coming that the offensive would reach values of 350-450% EDST with the showcase and can cast Rally unlimited ? And that the defenders dont spawn anymore ?

Lets see what ideas and adaptations you have, i would be happy if you could give some insights to the community or some players private

Im trying to understand many things, I just dont know how

No offense intended

 

[Harlems369th]

@Harlems369th Good, I’m glad to hear that its not a removing

I didn't say removing isn't happening either. I said we need to REVISIT or REWORK our original plans. At this time, there are no plans set in motion other than "we'd like to plan."

Yes but, the debuff on the offense against the defense is much higher than the defensive debuff the offense. Thats what I wanted to say

The defense has less options. I mean, didnt you see it coming that the offensive would reach values of 350-450% EDST with the showcase and can cast Rally unlimited ? And that the defenders dont spawn anymore ?

We attempted to assist with this prior to showcases becoming a thing, as mentioned in sitrep #1. However, based on community feedback, we decided to shelve the idea for a bit.

Lets see what ideas and adaptations you have, i would be happy if you could give some insights to the community or some players private

Im trying to understand many things, I just dont know how

No offense intended

As always, we'll gladly share information when we're ready to do so! However, please refrain from making assumptions or drawing conclusions from statements of 'possibility'; no concrete information was shared here today other than "we'd like to revisit".

 

[Super Val]

I agree that we need to revisit the -85% debuff cap. With the release of showcases, I think that it is necessary for us to do so in the future.

Keep in mind, though, that it's only a debuff cap, not a buff cap. So for your #5 do you mean to say that you see EDST go beyond the -85% debuff cap (bug)? Or do you mean that DST goes beyond -85% (Intentional)?

Thank you @Harlems369th for your reply.

what I meant to say, is: i will give you an example from the last war i fought:

my dst is: -250% (combining museum, showcase and council).

the one who attacked me had: edst: +225% from museum and +155% from showcase.

i watched the replay of the attack, my buildings struggled to spawn the first wave of defenders, and they couldn’t spawn a second wave, despite the fact that my building was placed next to the acropolis (which is an additional -22% dst), and also next to the Sydney opera (since i have the legendary boudica council committee, it grants me an additional dst of -20%),

despite all that, and despite the high dst 0f -250%, i could spawn 1 wave only!! This issue needs to be addressed as this is making the game unplayable for defenders.

Knowing that I’m part of an alliance which is within the top 10 alliances, and my D base is one of the strongest in the game, and still can not defend anymore against crazy bombers and now insanely crazy Lego attackers.

please try to find a solution as well for the missile silo, as it is currently completely out of the equation, with no way to defend it.

im currently not participating in any war, it is a personal decision, as i don’t enjoy enjoy seeing a top notch D base being taken down easily with no means to defend. i hope the game will rebalance, so we can play again.

 

[Super Val]

Regarding the cap of -85%, my simple thoughts are the following:

1- For all D lines, like “invading bomber damage“ , and the like:

These lines are found only in war armors, which are limited to 2 artifacts. How many lines of this you can get? Let’s say and as an average you got 2 lines of 15% from every armor artifact, so this will be a total of: -60%. (Some may argue that you can have more than 2 lines per artifact, well this is true , but first the chances are slim, and second what about the need for lines against para and mortars??).

Also these lines can be found at legendary artifacts, but how many lines compared to ‘bomber damage” lines? They are peanuts. Most lines in legendaries are for “bomber damage” and not for “invading bomber damage”, so basically, and as a conclusion, you might get your “invading bomber damage” to -90% (assuming 30% is coming from showcase on top of the 60% coming from war museum).

So it is barely exceeding the cap of -85%. So for us as defenders, it does not really make a much of difference if you keep the cap or remove it, as we barely can go beyond it. Unless you introduce more D legendaries with similar lines, at least to balance the number of O legendaries which constitute more than 2 third of the total numbers of legendaries.

2- The irony is that for the “enemy defender spawn time”, which is mainly used by attackers, and not defenders, the cap seems to be “non existent”, and as per my example i gave in the previous post, the edst can go far beyond 300%, which result in defender buildings not being able to spawn, or spawning 1 wave of defenders at most.

Here it is mandatory to cap it a -85%, because it is used as an O line instead of a D line.

again, if you don’t want to cap it, at least introduce a similar number of artifacts where D players can gather and collect similar number of dst lines from the showcase. Because as of now, only 4 or 5 legendaries has dst lines in them, unlike O artifacts where edst can be found in a lot of legendaries.

3- finally, i hope you do something to rebalance the game and make it playable again.

@Harlems369th

 

[El Herrante]

Cualquier jugador puede tener un +85% de probabilidad de que los defensores enemigos abandonen el campo. No entiendo por qué los defensores buscarían más tiempo para salir del campo si saben que la probabilidad solo llega hasta el -85%.

 

[SirBiggun]

I don’t agree with their assessment at all. I personally have both top O and D bases and I am fine with the state of the games balance .

It always seem to be the same defenders who aren’t happy, no matter how OP they made defense before they still weren’t ever happy. Listen to them @Harlems369th at your own peril for the playability of this game . BHG listened to them before about fighters, and now that fighters have been destroyed, they turn to bombers and Lego. Fighter were absolutely fine, most players didn’t master this strategy, only the top players . They nerfed a strategy for nothing and ended up destroying many people’s accounts. This was horribly unfair to those players with fighter museums .

I think these guys are always referring to the toppest tier attackers in top 15 or so alliances. but, it seems these top guys always found a way to clear even before the update. The rest of us attackers had no chance before on defenders, even with top Lego and bomber set ups. . For the first time in a long time most attackers with top museums now have a chance on 3D bases again like the old days . It still is very hard for most of us players to clear 3 Ds even with even bombers , most players who try bombers have trouble mastering this strategy , I can’t do it and neither can most people I know. Even with maxed out stats, many players just don’t have this top level skill. Only the top skilled bombers always clear, but, that’s the way it is with top skilled players, they will find a way . I know many experienced bomber players with maxed out museums and councils for bombers that still fail many times on D bases. Thats the way it should be, clear sometimes and not other times for most maxed out players .

And I think it is great that LEGO finally is back as a viable strat, not too long ago it was almost worthless. The changes made LEGO very competitive now without being OP like they are saying . You will never be safe from top skilled players. You can’t revolve the playability of a game just thinking about the top .5% of players and in the process screw over everyone else.

I think defenders were OP for so long , that they got too used to their bases almost never going down and got spoiled from this.

**IMO the game is the most playable, interesting and balanced now that it has ever been***

There is need to be making anymore major changes as so many have already been made recently it will just muddy the waters.
let things play out bit more and re evaluate later on.

 

[Seek]

I don’t agree with their assessment at all. I personally have both top O and D bases and I am fine with the state of the games balance .

It always seem to be the same defenders who aren’t happy, no matter how OP they made defense before they still weren’t ever happy. Listen to them @Harlems369th at your own peril for the playability of this game . BHG listened to them before about fighters, and now that fighters have been destroyed, they turn to bombers and Lego. Fighter were absolutely fine, most players didn’t master this strategy, only the top players . They nerfed a strategy for nothing and ended up destroying many people’s accounts. This was horribly unfair to those players with fighter museums .

I think these guys are always referring to the toppest tier attackers in top 15 or so alliances. but, it seems these top guys always found a way to clear even before the update. The rest of us attackers had no chance before on defenders, even with top Lego and bomber set ups. . For the first time in a long time most attackers with top museums now have a chance on 3D bases again like the old days . It still is very hard for most of us players to clear 3 Ds even with even bombers , most players who try bombers have trouble mastering this strategy , I can’t do it and neither can most people I know. Even with maxed out stats, many players just don’t have this top level skill. Only the top skilled bombers always clear, but, that’s the way it is with top skilled players, they will find a way . I know many experienced bomber players with maxed out museums and councils for bombers that still fail many times on D bases. Thats the way it should be, clear sometimes and not other times for most maxed out players .

And I think it is great that LEGO finally is back as a viable strat, not too long ago it was almost worthless. The changes made LEGO very competitive now without being OP like they are saying . You will never be safe from top skilled players. You can’t revolve the playability of a game just thinking about the top .5% of players and in the process screw over everyone else.

I think defenders were OP for so long , that they got too used to their bases almost never going down and got spoiled from this.

**IMO the game is the most playable, interesting and balanced now that it has ever been***

There is need to be making anymore major changes as so many have already been made recently it will just muddy the waters.
let things play out bit more and re evaluate later on.

Dude stop being clueless troll. Even staff is not blind enough to think balance is fair. Bad part is if you wanna troll at least be funny.

I am just not beating this dead horse anymore fix D or game will die off when all defenders quit

 

[nobodyknowsthetrouble]

It's funny how people here can't tell the difference between plus and minus.
You want to cap Edst at -85%? Good news for you: Edst is actually already capped at -0.01%. Attackers collect positive percentages. If they don't use any artifacts, the value is 0, which is as low as it gets.

 

[nobodyknowsthetrouble]

I agree that we need to revisit the -85% debuff cap. With the release of showcases, I think that it is necessary for us to do so in the future.

Keep in mind, though, that it's only a debuff cap, not a buff cap. So for your #5 do you mean to say that you see EDST go beyond the -85% debuff cap (bug)? Or do you mean that DST goes beyond -85% (Intentional)?

I would be very much in favor of adjusting the calculation as announced in the Sitrep.
People complain either way that the balance is not right.
Make the calculation clear and logical first. After that, you can still tweak the balance.

 

[Super Val]

The problem is less easier than that, the thing is that how defenders are gonna defend if they don’t have the ”means” or tools” to defend??

examples:

1- an attacker send an undetected recon, scan your MS, followed by 2 or 3 demos, and your MS is gone! disappear! How the defenders are gonna defended against that??? Or do we just call it “an act of God” !!!

2- a Lego attacker, grabbing more than 350% or 400% edst from both museum and showcase, makes your buildings unable to spawn defenders! How are you gonna defend against that? There are NO sufficient lines of DST to counter that! Among all the legendaries, only 4 or 5 legendaries provide DST compared to more than a dozen giving EDST. Give us the tools to defend and we will defend!! Simply make the number of legendaries equal, O legendaries should be equal to D legendaries, and problem solved!!

We are just demanding to be equal, that’s it!! Currently two third of the legendaries are O, this needs to change so they will be 50 - 50! Is that too much to ask?

@Harlems369th @Seek

 

[Seek]

The problem is less easier than that, the thing is that how defenders are gonna defend if they don’t have the ”means” or tools” to defend??

examples:

1- an attacker send an undetected recon, scan your MS, followed by 2 or 3 demos, and your MS is gone! disappear! How the defenders are gonna defended against that??? Or do we just call it “an act of God” !!!

2- a Lego attacker, grabbing more than 350% or 400% edst from both museum and showcase, makes your buildings unable to spawn defenders! How are you gonna defend against that? There are NO sufficient lines of DST to counter that! Among all the legendaries, only 4 or 5 legendaries provide DST compared to more than a dozen giving EDST. Give us the tools to defend and we will defend!! Simply make the number of legendaries equal, O legendaries should be equal to D legendaries, and problem solved!!

We are just demanding to be equal, that’s it!! Currently two third of the legendaries are O, this needs to change so they will be 50 - 50! Is that too much to ask?

@Harlems369th @Seek

Brother trust I know I been screaming at top of lungs for months about unequal artifacts the change in museum crafting the over power of bombers useless defense drones useless D artifacts

Which on the Defense Mythicals sure releasing more powerful will help but adjusting one that have already been released should happen as well.

Y’all Leggo players can keep your -350 400 EDST just bring back cap on to -85 problem solved

y’all bombers don’t want nerf fine make AA tower and MS receive less damage from Demo and give defenders a way to defend tactical heli and commando

Why won’t any of these simple fixes become real? because then game might be closer in balance, Fake Top O players would flip out having an actual challenge and BHG has to charge all D a premium to purchase new Mythicals and 20 min leveling of anything useful to burn up speed and increase profit line.

So if it’s Greed or Lack of Caring this totally one side game needs balance or it will be very stale and die out

 

[Rollin]

@Harlems369th

I think it would be good if BHG worked with a team of top players with additional PTR testing

The game is highly complex and has an extremely large number of possibilities; the players, especially the top 10 alliances, are far ahead of the BHG development team

@Seek Demolition only does less damage if you also own the Manufactory with multiple level 20 munition, but It takes an enormous amount of time for Defenders to get it. 2 Munition can give us -19% Dmg of Demo, its huge