Troop/tactics balance problem

[Nikolay]

It's been two months since the release of the v12.19 update. Bombers and Demolition leave no chance for the defending player, even if he has an excellent Museum and Council for defense. There are no countermeasures. As a result, the defense players suffer, they are just punching dolls. And the attackers have relaxed and are losing interest, because they can play with a mug of beer in one hand.

@Harlems369th @TheWise @BHGAustin @BHGSarah when will the update come out that will nerf Bombers and the Mongol coalition? Where is the promised rebalance? After 12.20, the attackers are gaining momentum and strengthening the Showcase. Defense players get very few bonuses from it. Also, now there is a Museum event to search for artifacts of war and many attackers have already found artifacts with 3-4 identical benefits for damage/hit points of bombers. At the same time, the defense players already have everything they need and are running into the 85% limit.
This is no longer funny, the situation is turning into a big problem

 

[Deosbrae]

If they nerf demolition (lets say when it needs more than 3 demos with recon to take out silo = other tactics needed with mortars) and mongols to the ground, then its game over...

Now all decent defenders' silo requires 4 demos to take down, let alone TOP defenders. Even so, they're still easily taken down by mortar attackers in 2 minutes or even 1:30 (or by bombers around 2 minutes) very frequently. Before the 12.20 update, this might happen in 1 or 2 out of every 20 wars. Now, it happens in AT LEAST one-third of all wars.

I keep reading defenders "crying" about how op the attackers are but nobody talks about numbers.

Well let me tell you. The complainers here are HALF top attackers. Such game balance is not only disrespectful and boring to defenders, but also to them. They saw other attackers who had previously been significantly less skilled than themselves now reaching the same level, albeit with slightly slower attack times.

 

[Seek]

I keep reading defenders "crying" about how op the attackers are but nobody talks about numbers.
I play only with lego tactic so lets talk about them. I keep struggling against top defenders and i think the main reason for that is defenders high dmg+hp and their insane movement speed which could be +48% nowadays (with maori, mythicals maori & gemini gloves).

Maybe showcase favors attackers a bit more but council favors more defenders than attackers. Then you can ask why:
Attackers can boost only troops and couple of single buildings (walls, towers, air def, silo = relatively insignificant in the big picture).
Defenders can weaken invanding troops too but in my opinion with the best legendary councilors (Kong, Laksh, Marie, Nancy, Queen, Guan, Hammurabi) stats would be like this:
Defender dmg 43%, Defender hp 46%, DST 86%, ADTHP + dmg 18%, Air def hp+dmg 36%, def tower dmg 64%. You cant even spy those stats so attacker goes like blindfolded.

There is nothing that attacker can do to defenders hp+dmg and movement speed. Hp and dmg can be easily capped at 85% even without maori coalition.

So what you think is mortars & siege troops really so op? If museum with showcase and council main stats would be even (DST / EDST, ADTHP+D / AEDTHP+D with defender and attacker, i could 5-star any defender with free TT-troops, problems start when defenders got better stats maybe like 25%. If they nerf demolition (lets say when it needs more than 3 demos with recon to take out silo = other tactics needed with mortars) and mongols to the ground, then its game over... Sorry for the bad english.

See this where I could just say that your post is coming from a very low level account perspective and that everything you said in later stages of game is untrue for the most part.

Instead I am going point out fact that yes balance in the lower level of game seem fairly good currently. When players reach mid levels and start facing experienced mid level players with museum that done right start having dps, hp and EDST stats in the + 300 for dps/hp and EDST- 300 is where balance starts to go out the window. It is way worse top level when those stats on in the +400% range. Now you combine that with Demo killing AA tower with 1 and silo on 3 D taken 3. Defenders are starting every battle with NO AA tower and No Silo. As for your complaint about movement speed well when you only get 1-3 spawns because -400% EDST Leggo have easy day Bombers have easy day.

As for statement defenders can nerf you troops yes to a max of -85 % which is nothing when you have troops with +400

They need to fix top upper mid on up to end of game levels balance

 

[Nikolay]

I keep reading defenders "crying" about how op the attackers are but nobody talks about numbers.
I play only with lego tactic so lets talk about them. I keep struggling against top defenders and i think the main reason for that is defenders high dmg+hp and their insane movement speed which could be +48% nowadays (with maori, mythicals maori & gemini gloves).

Maybe showcase favors attackers a bit more but council favors more defenders than attackers. Then you can ask why:
Attackers can boost only troops and couple of single buildings (walls, towers, air def, silo = relatively insignificant in the big picture).
Defenders can weaken invanding troops too but in my opinion with the best legendary councilors (Kong, Laksh, Marie, Nancy, Queen, Guan, Hammurabi) stats would be like this:
Defender dmg 43%, Defender hp 46%, DST 86%, ADTHP + dmg 18%, Air def hp+dmg 36%, def tower dmg 64%. You cant even spy those stats so attacker goes like blindfolded.

There is nothing that attacker can do to defenders hp+dmg and movement speed. Hp and dmg can be easily capped at 85% even without maori coalition.

So what you think is mortars & siege troops really so op? If museum with showcase and council main stats would be even (DST / EDST, ADTHP+D / AEDTHP+D with defender and attacker, i could 5-star any defender with free TT-troops, problems start when defenders got better stats maybe like 25%. If they nerf demolition (lets say when it needs more than 3 demos with recon to take out silo = other tactics needed with mortars) and mongols to the ground, then its game over... Sorry for the bad english.

And yet, the bombers don't care about the defenders at all.
Mortars wipe them out in a second, especially when the attacker has +300% edst; the second wave of defenders simply doesn't leave the buildings.

 

[Ezekiel]

Nowadays mortar attackers with over 350 edst are EVERYWHERE, outnumbering those with over 180 edst before the 12.20 update. Attacking a 200 dst 3D base is almost like attacking a previous heavy-hybrid 2D base. Defenders barely spawn at all, or melt away the moment they're touched by mortars.

 

[Rollin]

I keep reading defenders "crying" about how op the attackers are but nobody talks about numbers.
I play only with lego tactic so lets talk about them. I keep struggling against top defenders and i think the main reason for that is defenders high dmg+hp and their insane movement speed which could be +48% nowadays (with maori, mythicals maori & gemini gloves).

Maybe showcase favors attackers a bit more but council favors more defenders than attackers. Then you can ask why:
Attackers can boost only troops and couple of single buildings (walls, towers, air def, silo = relatively insignificant in the big picture).
Defenders can weaken invanding troops too but in my opinion with the best legendary councilors (Kong, Laksh, Marie, Nancy, Queen, Guan, Hammurabi) stats would be like this:
Defender dmg 43%, Defender hp 46%, DST 86%, ADTHP + dmg 18%, Air def hp+dmg 36%, def tower dmg 64%. You cant even spy those stats so attacker goes like blindfolded.

There is nothing that attacker can do to defenders hp+dmg and movement speed. Hp and dmg can be easily capped at 85% even without maori coalition.

So what you think is mortars & siege troops really so op? If museum with showcase and council main stats would be even (DST / EDST, ADTHP+D / AEDTHP+D with defender and attacker, i could 5-star any defender with free TT-troops, problems start when defenders got better stats maybe like 25%. If they nerf demolition (lets say when it needs more than 3 demos with recon to take out silo = other tactics needed with mortars) and mongols to the ground, then its game over... Sorry for the bad english.

„Maybe Showcase favors attackers a bit more“

I stopped reading calculate it ? inform yourself, you just write something ? but Ill give you an answer because 95% is not correct

with your council you lose all bonuses ?? Sniper Explosions, 20% DST near Wonders, Attakspeed defenders… and alot more, nobody does this

Showcase: The Defense have 1 Artefact thats gives DST and 4 that gives ADTHP/D if u play with the gloves its only 3 (Ramses, Crown and War Kit)

The offensive reaches about 180% EDST only through the showcase, you still have barracks damage and quick victory lines, with cooldown reduction for the paratroopers. Shocase have so much ADTD that you dont need anything else in the museum, u capt it -85%

This difference is not „a bit“

and when BHG 1:1 will release the Mythic Artifacts, it will be even stronger for the offense. They messed up the defense artifacts anyway

„nobody talks about numbers“ we talk about the numbers all the time….but you didnt read it

 

[SirBiggun]

Hey @Seek! Just a heads up, you should not expect 'live chat' response times from me (or anyone) on the forums. Not sure what your line of work is, but most folks feel a lunch break to be helpful in maintaining productivity. Not to mention the fact that you're not the only player sending me messages that need a response. I'd appreciate a bit more patience from you in the future.


I don't have dates to provide you with, as our release schedule is already packed tight with everything we have planned for the rest of the year, as well as the time needed to resolve pressing live issues and bugs. This has nothing to do with 'clearance,' and has everything to do with the fact that we have already provided you with all of the available information.

I absolutely understand the frustration of players regarding balance and the state of the game. This has been a complaint I've heard from my very first day with BHG and one I've heard every day since. No matter what we do, balance will never be perfect. If you're not currently enjoying DomiNations, I would absolutely urge you to take a break and come back to see if a future update aligns more with your preferences. I've got a few game recommendations I'd be happy to share; if you're interested just shoot me a dm. You are obviously welcome back any time at all, we'll still be here doing our best to maintain a game that is loved by many.

Wow, it’s been a long time since I bother checking the forums. I absolutely agree.

I can’t believe there is the same people still complaining that defenders are at a disadvantage. i’ve seen defenders with super scores over 700! I guess they’ll just never be happy until they can never be cleared by anybody. It’s true that a very good bomber is hard to stop. But we were talking about a very small percentage of players that are that good that have top bomber museums. I know many players with absolute maxed bomber museums that can’t clear defenders. And as far as Lego, many top Lego accounts still have trouble against many top defenders. But, LEGO is actually competitive again for the first time in like two years so these changes have been great for the game in my opinion. To Nerf Mongol would be destroying Lego yet again and so it would be stupid to do. Same with nerfing bombers, it’s still hard to be a good bomber attacker! stop calling for the nerfing of offensive troops. They did it with fighters and left this with only two attack styles now which makes the game more boring. They should never have Nerf fighters.

That being said , I actually feel the game is probably the most balanced. I was ready to quit the game and now I’m back being active again on my main account. These have been great changes so far . It has been in a very long time because for a couple of years defenders were completely overpowered to the point of frustration of many people wanting to quit at least now a Lego has a chance with the new mythical and showcases to have be competitive against defenders . And a good bomber can practice and have a chance against defenders .

Maybe if your bases are being cleared all the time it’s because you’re only facing top players maybe go to an alliance that isn’t the top 10 or top 20 Alliance and you won’t face all the top players and maybe then you’ll see how often you hold stars. The defenders need to stop crying already. It’s out of control..

 

[Linnéa]

Show me just ONE player who's crying about ''OP'' defense. Just one.
Because all I see is defenders crying nonstop over and over again

He just showed up lol

 

[Ezekiel]

Wow, it’s been a long time since I bother checking the forums. I absolutely agree.

I can’t believe there is the same people still complaining that defenders are at a disadvantage. i’ve seen defenders with super scores over 700! I guess they’ll just never be happy until they can never be cleared by anybody. It’s true that a very good bomber is hard to stop. But we were talking about a very small percentage of players that are that good that have top bomber museums. I know many players with absolute maxed bomber museums that can’t clear defenders. And as far as Lego, many top Lego accounts still have trouble against many top defenders. But, LEGO is actually competitive again for the first time in like two years so these changes have been great for the game in my opinion. To Nerf Mongol would be destroying Lego yet again and so it would be stupid to do. Same with nerfing bombers, it’s still hard to be a good bomber attacker! stop calling for the nerfing of offensive troops. They did it with fighters and left this with only two attack styles now which makes the game more boring. They should never have Nerf fighters.

That being said , I actually feel the game is probably the most balanced. I was ready to quit the game and now I’m back being active again on my main account. These have been great changes so far . It has been in a very long time because for a couple of years defenders were completely overpowered to the point of frustration of many people wanting to quit at least now a Lego has a chance with the new mythical and showcases to have be competitive against defenders . And a good bomber can practice and have a chance against defenders .

Maybe if your bases are being cleared all the time it’s because you’re only facing top players maybe go to an alliance that isn’t the top 10 or top 20 Alliance and you won’t face all the top players and maybe then you’ll see how often you hold stars. The defenders need to stop crying already. It’s out of control..

Please take a look at other alliances — don't limit your view to your own alliance. No offense intended, but the attacking skills of the vast majority of your members fall well below average. Even during the period when Fatal ranked within the top 15, Fatal’s overall attack skill remained the weakest among the top 15, even top 25 alliances.
When top mortar attackers clear 450+ ss defenders in 2’ with a mediocre museum while you're struggling to earn a single star on defensive base with mortars. You NEVER learn from these attacks — their strategic approaches, the timing of tactics using, the number of artilleries used, or how to control their advance speed effectively. Instead, you use the fact that neither you nor your alliance members can achieve this or the attacker’s museum is a lot worse than yours as an argument to disparage these top attackers for using boost cheats.
When the firing rates of mortars and artilleries became noticeably abnormal after the 12.20 update — to the point that even some defenders noticed — you still insisted it’s merely a visual glitch. These are the reasons why you and your team's attackers are making extreme slow progress.
As for your point that many defenders now exceed 700 ss, I believe most attackers who capable of consistently defeating these defenders have keenly felt that today's 700 ss defenders are far less resilient than the 425 ss defenders before the 12.20 update.

 

[Linnéa]

I can’t believe there is the same people still complaining that defenders are at a disadvantage. i’ve seen defenders with super scores over 700! I guess they’ll just never be happy until they can never be cleared by anybody.

Your words make it sound like the attackers aren't improving at all while only the defenders are advancing their ss lol.

It’s true that a very good bomber is hard to stop. But we were talking about a very small percentage of players that are that good that have top bomber museums.

The fact is many mediocre bomber attackers with good bomber museum and max showcase are almost impossible to stop as well. And it’s even easier for a mediocre mortar attacker (with a 380+ edst museum and max showcase) to 5-star anyone. Perhaps in your eyes these are all very good attackers, but their skills are worlds apart. Only truly poorly-skilled attackers would struggle on 600 ss defenders now.

 

[Deosbrae]

I don't see the point in discussing game balance with players who struggled to clear even offensive bases before the 12.20 update.

 

[stas]

He just showed up lol

where he said the defense is OP?He said it was OP not NOW

 

[stas]

Your words make it sound like the attackers aren't improving at all while only the defenders are advancing their ss lol.

The fact is many mediocre bomber attackers with good bomber museum and max showcase are almost impossible to stop as well. And it’s even easier for a mediocre mortar attacker (with a 380+ edst museum and max showcase) to 5-star anyone. Perhaps in your eyes these are all very good attackers, but their skills are worlds apart. Only truly poorly-skilled attackers would struggle on 600 ss defenders now.

how many players do u think have those good stats?tell me the %

I don't see the point in discussing game balance with players who struggled to clear even offensive bases before the 12.20 update.

So balance for u is what the elit saying?realy?
Becasue the game is too easy for the elit atackers or those who has good stats lets make the game harder for the rest?

 

[Linnéa]

where he said the defense is OP?He said it was OP not NOW

In Discord not on Forum. I can’t send ss through DM on forums.

 

[Linnéa]

how many players do u think have those good stats?tell me the %

Mediocre attackers with those stats can clear most defenders. More skilled players don’t need those stats to clear most defenders, if with those stats they can clear defenders in very fast time. Now at least 15% of players can clear the 99% defenders. This includes players who have those good stats and players who have weaker stats but better skill.

 

[Deosbrae]

So balance for u is what the elit saying?realy?
Becasue the game is too easy for the elit atackers or those who has good stats lets make the game harder for the rest?

Why would you understand it that way? Is clearing O base too much to ask before 12.20? Even with a trash museum, empty council and 3 offensive coalitions most players are able to clear all O bases easily. Only farmers and very little active players can’t do that. If you're talking about elite players, that refers to those who can always clear any offensive base within 1:15 no matter what layout they use—unless the last gold pile or 1% building traps them.
Or balance for you is what the players whose skill is significantly below average saying?

 

[Nikolay]

how many players do u think have those good stats?tell me the %


So balance for u is what the elit saying?realy?
Becasue the game is too easy for the elit atackers or those who has good stats lets make the game harder for the rest?

We're not talking about an elite attacker and some weak defender. Even if you take the best possible attacker and the most highly-powered defender, the attacker has a much greater advantage thanks to the showcase. And by the way, this doesn't even include the future Mythic Artifacts. With them, the attacker will destroy bases in 30 seconds.

If you haven't figured this out yet, look through all the game's Legendary and Mythic Artifacts and calculate how much of their benefit is offensive and how much is defensive.

Legendary tokens are awarded daily, so each day the attackers' strength increases significantly more than the defenders' defense.

Time is against us.

 

[Deosbrae]

If you haven't figured this out yet, look through all the game's Legendary and Mythic Artifacts and calculate how much of their benefit is offensive and how much is defensive.

@stas Additionally, I wanna clarify that each 1% increase in attack force stats does not equate to an equivalent increase in adtd or adth. For example, a 1% boost to bomber HP/dmg yields a greater effect than a 1% increase in adtd/adth.
For another example, it’s A LOT easier to use a 250/150(HP/dmg) bomber account to clear a 250/250(adtd/adth) defender than use a 200/100 bomber account to clear a 200/200 defender. (Suppose they’re having same council and layout etc.)

 

[stas]

The game is balanced for the majority of players, but at the very top (elite), it isn’t.
If you're going to complain about anything, it should be the extra premium buildings or the squadrons/BHM TTs

 

[Nikolay]

The game is balanced for the majority of players, but at the very top (elite), it isn’t.
If you're going to complain about anything, it should be the extra premium buildings or the squadrons/BHM TTs

More nonsense. The game has a multitude of units, only a few of which are used, because they're the only ones that can effectively attack. The problem is the extremely high percentages, which leave the defender no chance.
Another point: right now, all defenders have/are building a museum against bombers/mortars. But if they rebalance the troops and make other units playable, it will be even more difficult for defenders; they'll have to find multiple sets to counter different units. And the attacker will have to pump up the percentages for only one or two of their active units and have +100-200% damage/hit points.

 

[stas]

More nonsense. The game has a multitude of units, only a few of which are used, because they're the only ones that can effectively attack. The problem is the extremely high percentages, which leave the defender no chance.
Another point: right now, all defenders have/are building a museum against bombers/mortars. But if they rebalance the troops and make other units playable, it will be even more difficult for defenders; they'll have to find multiple sets to counter different units. And the attacker will have to pump up the percentages for only one or two of their active units and have +100-200% damage/hit points.

Everyone who managed to get our best defender down to 5* only did so by using either 5 bombers, 3 recons + 2 Tupolevs, or 3–4 Squadrons/BHM. Without those specific units, they would have failed just like the rest of their teammates who didn’t use them.

Teams we played lately are Momineen and Teastars and even they needed those.
So remove those and you will be fine